Saturday, May 04, 2013

Design Courses: Significant Learning vs Cover Content + Dev 7Futures MOOC. Transcript/etc #TLTGfrlv online free FridayLive! TLTG

 "Designing Courses for Significant Learning vs Covering the Content" 
I.  Intro  II.  Developing 7 Futures MOOCow May 3, 2013 2:00-3:00 pm ET 
 Presenters: Dee Fink, John Sener, et al. 
 Slides, DIIGO repository of links, and full transcription of text chat available free to all below.  Complete digital recording of the event (and many others) available only to TLT Group members.  Please join!]

Join us every/any week as we continue to share good ideas, resources, suggestions, and specific [small] next steps in the TLT Group's FridayLive! free weekly online sessions.

Digital Archive  Full recording of this online session, which includes audio, slides, and text chat available only if you are a member of the TLT group.  Use this link to access the full  collection of available archived sessions.

Slides for this session available published separately

I hope you find all this interesting and useful!
                       - Steve Gilbert, President, TLT Group

Almost complete transcript of entire text chat (omitting private messages) from 2-4pm ET Friday May 3, 2013:

 suehellman:@Dee -- you might want to logout and then come back into the meeting. That used to happen to me when on a PC.
  Dee Fink:I think I got it.
  Dee Fink:Can someone say something
  Margaret Gardner:Yay!
  John Sener:and with an entire minute to spare ;-)
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:My thoughts exactly John
  Margaret Driscoll:It's always helpful to come to these webinars at least 15 minutes early to cover the always present tech glitches!
  Leslie Harris, Bucknell University:We hear you fine
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:yup and even then
  Robin Musselman:Sounds good
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:I am getting background noise Steve
  Margaret Driscoll:better
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:Much better
  Lisa Star:better steve
  Margaret Gardner:Steve, you're muted.
  Margaret Gardner:Oh, good!
  Margaret Driscoll::)
  John Sener:yes
  Margaret Gardner:Yes!
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:Yes
  William Vilberg:Better
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Michael Dabney:Mike Dabney, retired director of teaching center at Hawaii Pacific University in Honolulu, retired and making maple syrup in Shelburne, VT
  Steve Epstein:Yup
  Margaret Gardner:Sounds fun, Michael!
  Steven Grindle:I checked 4 boxes. Hope that's ok
  Margaret Driscoll:I have my MLIS but am in a support staff position in the library right now.
  Lisa Star:really foreign - south Dakota
  Margaret Gardner:Portland, Oregon. Oregon Health & Science University. Research Administration Education Coordinator and Instructor
  John Sener:@Michael yum!
  Margaret Driscoll:California State University Channel Islands (closed today because of fires yesterday surrounding campus)
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:Northern WI with 18" of snow yesterday
  Bev:New Brunswick, east coast of Canada
  Margaret Gardner:Also studying in the Grad School of Ed at Portland State U.
  Steven Grindle:Anything south of the northern Massachussetts is considered foreign to us in northern New England
  Margaret Driscoll:limited world view there, Steven!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF Gain:  share ideas;  work with colleagues to APPLY his ideas to new area of
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF Not lose...  keeping the focus on QUALITY OF STUDENT LEARNING
  Steven Grindle:Just mirroring Mr. Gilbert's limited world view :)
  Steven Grindle:Having fun... no need to apologize
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:private msgs to penny kuckkahn
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:We aer soooo grateful for our volunteers.
  Irina Ivliyeva:OK!
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:If you have only one name in the attendees list, please send me a private message and let me know who you are.  Thanks
  Steven Grindle:Sally G. What if Cher, Sting or Archimedes want to join us? :)
  Margaret Gardner:SGr, LOL! you say it is 3pm, what time zone?
  Alex Harocopos:EST zone
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:ooooh  Sting!
  Amy Woodgate - UoEdinburgh:in 45 minutes! :)
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Whew!
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:when we mention time we are talking eastern US
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:CONTEXT:  next 30 mins - overview of "iintegrated course design"  then swith to planning AND continue Wed May 8 2pmET  "fishbowl" open planning!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:May 10 - finish up planning
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:May 17 begin MOOCow
  Margaret Driscoll:Will next wednesdays session be available free or do we have to register/pay to continue being part of the process?
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:Steve will next Wed. session be recorded for those who canot attend?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Yes, we'll record Wed May 8 session as well as May 10
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:May 10, 2013  2:00-3:00 pm ET - free to all."Transitioning to Online Teaching - What are 7 things a new online teacher needs to know?" ***Looking for participants who have not yet taught online.*** We'll offer rough draft of 7 and discuss/revise live.
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:We make archive recordings available to individual members.  If there is a groundswell of interest in getting one archive, we may be able to accommodate for a small fee.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:May 10 will include further planning for MOOCow
  Henry Merrill:Dee - Do you make a distinction between learning "goals" and learning "outcomes"?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  goals should be CLEAR & SIGNIFICANT
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:NOTE:  Increasing focus on learners does not imply lack of attention to and respect for teachers!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  Developing courses, need to manage expectations not only of students, teacher, BUT ALSO SOME IMPORTANT PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE COURSE!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:HenryM - has dee cleared up that distinction between "learning goals" and outcomes?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:going beyond Bloom's Taxonomy!
  Margaret Gardner:Dee, this is so helpful, your update of Bloom's taxonomy.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Grant Wiggins "Authentic Educ"
  Julie Higbee:Similar concept as "metalearning"?
  Julie Higbee:
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:see Taxonomy of Significant Learning at (among others)
  Alex Harocopos:"understand" and "know" are difficult to measure whether a student has achieved those learning goals.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF - learning goals and outcomes synonymous for DFs purposes
  Alex Harocopos:They are not easily observable...
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF Metalearning - learning how to learn - include and goes beyond cognition
  Leslie Harris, Bucknell University:Learning outcomes tend to focus more on what students will be able to do as a result of taking the course, rather then what the students have learned
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:recordings - yes avail to TLTG members
  Margaret Driscoll:@Leslie. I contemplate ... what the students have learned is essential to allow them to do somethihng as a result of taking the course.  some intertwining there, I think.
  suehellman:Perry? Pary?
  Robin Musselman:Perry
  Irina Ivliyeva:William Perry’s  9 Positions
  suehellman:@Robin thx
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Irina Ivliyeva:Thank you !
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Maybe we should do a future followup session to our previous workshop about "Why Meta is Bettah"
  Margaret Driscoll:=) Steve
  Irina Ivliyeva:YES!!!
  Nan Zingrone:love that title Steve
  John Sener:@Alex - this gets into the issue of learning that is easily observable and learning that is not
  Steven Grindle:Do you have any examples of applying your approach to a particular course?
  suehellman:am loving this
  Tatyana Dumova:Dee probably plans to talk about this, but here is the question. Learning goals have to be not only clear and significant but also measurable. How can the goals under the Human Dimensions and Caring categories of the taxonomy be measured?
  Alex Harocopos:I agree, it is difficult to measure cognitive actions, I think it's important to focus on objectives/goals for higher thinking that provides some type of application. Thanks @John Sener
  Margaret Driscoll:reflection is very powerful for learning
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:TD:  MUST be measurable?  Not always MUST?  How narrowly/broadly define "measurable"
  Alex Harocopos:Something that can be observed and measurable as Tatyanna mentioned above
  Randal:@Steven, yes,I'd like to see also an example e.g. of one week, one class
  John Sener:@Alex - as an instructional designer, I understand (heh heh) the impulse to question verbs such as "understand" and "know"
  Alex Harocopos:Exactly
  John Sener:However, I've learned to soften my position on this because clearly important learning happens 'internally' and 'cognitively' that's hard to measure; for this type of learning, we may have to rely on self-reporting measures and be content w/that
  Margaret Driscoll:well-said, Dee
  Alex Harocopos:It's a good point because most changes in behavior (learning) happen internally. I just find it difficult to assess whether a student has learned if their is no application or output. Thank you for addressing my concern
  Tatyana Dumova:Yes, self-reporting and self-assessment.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Educative Assessment: Designing Assessments to Inform and Improve Student Performance (Paperback)by Grant P. Wiggins
  John Sener:@Alex - of course, as you know, that's because it is difficult to assess :-)
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Educative Assessment: Designing Assessments to Inform and Improve Student Performance (Paperback)by Grant P. Wiggins
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Wait... are you really suggesting that there are kinds of assessment used in higher ed that can actually be helpful to students?  and to teachers?  Revolutionary!
  Alex Harocopos:there*
  Pamela Auburn:will we get the slides from this
  Robert Voelker-Morris:I am 100% sold on self-assessment and reflection, but in the practical for a general education course it is sure the most difficult component of the learning process for the students to articulate and not fall back on simplifying it all.  I would love to hear suggestions here.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:And there are some really good traditionally structured courses too... right?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Sllides and transcript of this chat will be avail
  Robert Voelker-Morris:To follow up on my question about reflection as in the students find stepping out of "by the numbers" is really hard for them
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Annotated links to resources from/related to the TLT Group's online sessions available via DIIGO repository at Thanks to Dale Parker!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Robt V-m - do you have mic capability todya? to ask your quesitons/comments soon?
  Robert Voelker-Morris:Sure, let me set that up
  Joy Mark:@Robert: perhaps the act of reflection and articulation could fall into the learning how to learn and could be broken down in a similar manner as is being described
  John Sener:@Robert V-M: I don't have any easy answers 4u, but part of the issue is that you have to teach them how to think and learn on top of the course "content" requirements
  Robert Voelker-Morris:if you allow it Steve
  Paty B.:I think the new forms would be very helpful.
  John Sener:Or I should say enable them to learn how to learn
  Robert Voelker-Morris:l = in that they are one and the same of the whole "meta"
  John Sener:"range of different types of learning" = students learn the same range of things, or they each learn a different set of things?
  Pamela Auburn:I use Blooms taxonomy
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: TD:  MUST be measurable?  Not always MUST?  How narrowly/broadly define "measurable"
  Pamela Auburn:Irina Are you familiar with Quality Matters?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  dont' worry FIRST about mearsurablility when developing goals/outcomes
  Randal:Always appens to me .. learning goal is nemesis!!
  Irina Ivliyeva:Yes, of course! Our school uses it. we also use Qualtrics for surveys
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  easy to use Bloom & followers' ideas for measurability of cognitive goals/outcomes  BUT pick non-fully-cognitive learning goals/outcomes that are exciting, important to the teacher (and, hopefully, to the learners) and worry later about how to "measure" those
  Irina Ivliyeva:WOW!!!! Grest example
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  interesting learning goals related to caring, getting beyond "me"... good example of assessment for that by asking writing assignment re "what would you do if win lottery"  then at end of course asked same essay question -hoping, expecting, getting responses that were not entirely the same!@
  Joy Mark:I think what Dee is describing right now is essential to the question of how to assess that seems to pervade the chat: establishing a baseline (through a reflective essay)
  Irina Ivliyeva:Thank you for sharing this example!
  Joy Mark:treating assessment as a comparative activity
  John Sener:fine with me
  John Sener:agreed with "fruitful" et al.
  John Sener:or what I like to call a schMOOC
  Randal:do we just stay in te Connect page or logout? and ten login again?
  John Sener:@Randal -- just stay put here
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Just stay with us right here!
  Henry Merrill:These are useful examples of worksheets to help map from Goals to weekly planning. What about starting the schedule worksheet with the last week rather than Week One?
  Glenn Everett:Those hwo have taught Freshmen Comp also understand that maturing and growth is not always attributable to what we have done in the course.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:GlennE - and maturation and growth don't always happen at all.... watch our congressmen!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:THIS IS ROBERT V-M
  Glenn Everett:Steve -- touche
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:RVM - selfassessment hard for students even tho really important, valuable for teacher
  Margaret Driscoll:blogging by students has been shown to be quite effective in writing self-reflective works
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  Students unprepared for self-reflecting.... needs teacher to provide more guidance in first attempts!
  John Sener:IMO NCLB has aggravated this issue -- students highly trained not to reflect or think or take responsibility
  Margaret Driscoll:no child left behind
  Margaret Driscoll:and I agree, John
  John Sener:Students are unprepared for self-reflecting because they have so much experience in being told that their reflections don't matter
  Randal:truly .. I agree with that
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JS: comment implies (rightly) that students CAN be trained/guided to be MORE/LESS reflective!
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:@John - So true
  Margaret Driscoll:asking the right questions.
  Irina Ivliyeva:It is difficult to re-train the high scholl students from standard.tests to self assessment.
  Pamela Auburn:I have them rate themselves on the skills they were intended to learn in each unit. I teach chem so this works
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF 1-min papers;  reflective papers;  learning portfolios,....
  John Sener:Scripted curriculum, standardized testing, et al. treat students as inert inputs as if they don't matter as persons
  Margaret Driscoll:well, that has to change as they enter higher education
  Pamela Auburn:If I hve them do this at the end of each unit it allows them to more effectively target study for a test
  Lisa Star:We actually do the same when teaching faculty - scripted curriculum for development
  Nan Zingrone:great talk you guys; got to run to another appointment
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JS:  right - we don't want to treat students, teacdhers or courses as "inert" - counter to the description of courses as something that can/should be DELIVERED (like pizza) without modification by recipients!
  Glenn Everett:Irina - especially difficult to get away from the standard test mentality the more we incorporate it into post-secondary educ.
  Robert Voelker-Morris:This is excellent!
  Irina Ivliyeva:Is  not this the truth, glenn?
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:We're going to try an experiment.. We will let everyone come to the Wednesday planning session regardless of membership status.  Any recordings of today  or Wednesday or next FridayLive!  will continue to be available to members only.  We'd love you to become  an nindividual member if you're not already.
  Lisa Star:absolutely!
  Milica Markovic:Are previously recorded webinars available online?
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Here's the URL for becoming a member.
  Paty B.:Listen to this recording again.
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:All previous sessions are archived and available to Individual Members.
  Beth Dailey:I plan to listen to this recording
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:There is a discount for students and retired persons.
  Lesley Blicker:I probably will change a few activities in my online course . I love the pre course reflection and post-course
  Milica Markovic:If I can't access them, who should I contact?
  Jane Harris:I really like the build up of the self reflection part and plan to use it in a pedagogy course I will be teaching this fall.
  Steven Grindle:Example of this theory successfully applied to an actual course would talk with my two colleagues at GC and see where we go
  Margaret Driscoll:I will use the plan presented by Dee for planning a tutorial (small, not a complete course, but transferrable to that use)
  Stephanie Wells:Starting with the end in mind and working backwards with the weekly content/assignments/activities
  Molly Flanagan:Bringing in other dimensions of learning to course development: metalearning, intra/interpersonal skills, connecting the dots between courses and class sessions
  Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:We're going to try an experiment.. We will let everyone come to the Wednesday planning session regardless of membership status.  Any recordings of today  or Wednesday or next FridayLive!  will continue to be available to members only.  We'd love you to become  an nindividual member if you're not already.
  Robert Voelker-Morris:Same as Jane, and working on that more dynamic layering of reflection
  Leanne Urasaki:I'm really excited to try out using self assessments more.  I already have students do self reflections on learning, but I want to try out having them self assess some assignments and papers (before I do my grading)
  K Kubitz:I like the suggestion of having students answer some sort of question reflecting values or perception of teaching/ learning etcetera at the beginning and end of the semester.
  Henry Merrill:Share Dee's adaptation of Bloom's cognitive taxonomy with the affective taxonomy of learning.
  Irina Ivliyeva:For me personally - I am happy to see that more and more  professionals in academia a re going this directin! We are not alon!
  debbie mcmahon:I will incorporate some self-assessment ideas in the classroom
  Lisa Star:wonderful!
  Margaret Driscoll:Penultimate means second best, not best. (FYI)
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:As I work with faculty encourage more self assessment within their course design
  vanessa:Findnig creative ways to measure difficult to measure learning outcomes. I loved the million dollar question giving by theliterature teacher Dee gave us. Wonderful. And even befor ethat, I like the ideas of not getting bogged down in  how to measure things but to just get down what you want the goal to be. This will certainly help many of our instrctors.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Margaret Driscoll:thank you for sharing those examples!
  Irina Ivliyeva:Phenomenal! thank you for sharing!
  Paty B.:Thanks so much :)
  debbie mcmahon:thanks!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Randal:te avatars are wispering songs ...
  Pamela Auburn:I have been involved in developing content for OER Commons
  Steve Bedi:First time subscriber and found the session very helpful as I make my transition back to the classroom after nine years as provost. Thanks very much.
  Beth Dailey:Trey Mireles will return on May 24th
  Irina Ivliyeva:71 participants are still with us! Thank you  - after 3 pm!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:[Beth, go ahead and twist Dee's arm about more online sessions!]
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Trey Mireles offered assist anyone as they apply the EAT instructional approach,
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Pls add this data and source for MOOCow!
  Steven Grindle:Thanks folks. Gotta go.... :)
  vanessa:Thank you. This was so useful for faculty developers as we work with instructors who are developing courses.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JS:  "Learning Centered"  better than "Learner Centered" !!!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JS:  also see "Impact Assessment"
  Mike Wallace:Absolutely... I have been using learning-centered for the very reasons John is talking about
  Robert Voelker-Morris:@Steve Gilbert = Sorry I missed the Animoto session, and need to sign off today.  Talk to you later.
  John Sener:my book does the same -- as you said earlier, we stand on the shoulders of others
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Mike Wallace:FAculty I have worked with really baulk at student-centered most, then learner-centered but are most open to the idea of learning-centered
  John Sener:sorry
  Joy Mark:@Mike - I've had the same experience with faculty resistance to "student-centered" - why do you think that is
  Ilene Frank 2:"student-centered" sounds equivalent to "the customer is always right" -  I think learning centered is better, huh?
  Randal:Students see that teir cultural view is one among many and tey need to understand "know" from many directions.
  Glenn Everett:It strikes me that "learning how to learn" is far and away the most important goal.  We USED to expect that college-level students were already there; Are not employers telling us that now, even college graduates are not prepared to be independent thinkers?
  John Sener:  Encourage greater use of effective strategies for improving educational quality
  Randal:sorry, my "h" is dead.
  John Sener:@Randal - that's orrible! ;-)
  Randal::) good advice, enry iggins.
  Mike Wallace:@ joy - my take is that they begin to think about specific students and whether they can design something that meets every student's need whereas learning broadens the view allowing tem to think about what they want students to know and be able to do asa result of the course anmd how that might be achieved
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Dee is introducing visual framework to help us sort out how we structure new MOOCow - where different people have different ways of participating - levels, goals, etc.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  Full Participation Level
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:DF:  Auditor Level
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Auditors/Lurkers Level
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Can Ys dialogue with Xs?
  Randal:if tis is for a MMOC, wy are teir different particioation levels?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Subgroup of Auditor/Lurkers - self-developed groups OUTSIDE the "full participation" level?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Levels and Paths...
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:It seems like MOOC participants self select to these two teirs
  Mike Wallace:@glen - yes! learning how to learn and helping students begin praciting how to think like an expert within the discupline - a journey from novice to expert that requires students to regulate their learning - figuring out what they understand and don't understand
  Jane Harris:There is a precedent for this. The cMOOCs were like this. There was a university-based course with limited enrollment.
  Irina Ivliyeva:Thank you for the opportunity to be the voice of teh Chat today. I ahve to leave now. See you next time!
  Ilene Frank 2:I think people will just happen to divide themselves into full- medium- lurker  because that's just what happens.  Do you have to make people promise to participate at a certain level?
  John Sener:@Jane -- right -- the "c" in "schMOOC" stands for connectivist ("sc" = "somewhat connectivist"
  William Vilberg:Yes
  suehellman:is similar to waht Alec Couros used to do with one of his U of Regina courses. X's were registered and  were the for credit cohort; others  from the outside  could participate in a on outer circle. Some conferences are the same way -- f2f attendees are like the X's; online attendees are like the Y's
  Jane Harris:@John - ;-)
  Randal:I took a Coursera MOOC last summer tat ad about 40,000 participants, but te "full-participants," if you will, dropped down to only several thousand. But tere was noting structural to create those levels.
  Joy Mark:thanks, @Mike - I tend to practice a hermaneutic of suspicion when faculty resist, wondering if they are more concerned about "control" - it's easier for me to respond positively to them if I interpret their concern as one of "logistics"
  John Sener:= self-guided nature tour
  John Sener:vs. ranger-guided nature tour
  suehellman:I think the interaction that's missing is then the X's wander out to communicate and participate with the Y's.
  Ilene Frank 2:Are the full participants subject to surveillance?
  Randal:however, te Y to Y and X to Y connections developed in Facebook Twitter and other adhoc creations.
  John Sener:@suehellman: right, and vice versa
  suehellman:so the inner cicle is sort of semi-permeable?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Maybe it would be good for participants to identify how they want to participate?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:INSIDDERS defined as committed to intereaction with "leader(s)"
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:OUTSIDERS defined as committed NOT to interact much with "leader(s)"
  suehellman:But I wonder if Dee's diagram doesn't get people to think about their level of commitment before the sign up. Perhaps that might make for more longevity for more people?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Either innies or outies could opt for the structured path (syllabus?) or free structure
  Jane Harris:intrinsic motivation - based
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Sue, I was thinking the same thing, ask people to identify a level of participation and of, course allow this to change
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Structured Syllabus (SS) to be offered would include beginning and ending times... Would those who do NOT opt for syllabus/structure would they have beignning or ending times?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:it's all about the learning, right?
  suehellman:@Beth -- it also may connect with that idea of goals in and goals leaving comparisson to  create for people some  for  that "learning how to learn' goal.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:I think we should offer some sort of recogintion for participation and possibile a different recognition for performance
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:SIMPLEST QUESTION ABOUT STRUCTURE:  Do we have starting, ending dates?  If so, do they have the same meaning for everyone?  Do we "close" access to resources before the begnning date and after the ending date for EVERYONE? or just for those who opt for the Structured Syllabus?
  John Sener:to me a related question is whether the course structure is more of a sequence vs. a scavenger hunt
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:SS = structured syllabus sequence
  Jane Harris:interesting - the cMOOCs I have lurked in have been more modularized.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:SH = scavenger hunt - access to selected, organized resources
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:SSS  like guided hike on prepared nature trail
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:SH = scrounging within a contained area - an area that has been enriched
  suehellman:but it's nice for those who do start at the beginning and work through to the end to gain an extra something special (easter eggs?) for having done so?
  Randal:@Jane -- that was my exerience in the MOOC I joined. But over time the themes resonated  across te modules, if I can state it that way. Peraps it depends on te nature of the subject matter
  John Sener:@suehellman: we're open to ideas on what would motivate; my concern is that we don't have a compelling easter egge
  John Sener:egg
  John Sener:[we don't have an egge either]
  Randal:Agreed, "let's get excited about geography!"
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:Need to run.
  Penny Kuckkahn, Nicolet College:Thanks everyone for a great session!
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Bye Penny
  Maureen Akins:Have to run - thanks for  all the thoughts
  John Sener:another end: level of attention from the course facilitators
  John Sener:live sessions end
  Jane Harris:That is what I am familiar with.
  John Sener:access to selected materials can end depending on where they are in the first place
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:That's a good point Dee, yes, the structured interactions end
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:people will continue to interact especially if they have developed their own networks as a result of the course
  Randal:yes, some interactions outside a course may continue, but basically the internal "data", everyting you get with a login, would be closed. I think that is where Steve is going.
  suehellman:@John -- I see what you're trying to get at with badges; they would not entice me out of lurking. It will be the relevance and importance of the content to my work or a 'pass' to a special session with a special speaker. or perhaps to a mentorship group later on when I'm trying some of this out on my own. I am ofter captivated be MOOC titles and content, but don't follow through. I'm asking myself what would make me who up every week.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Pls join us for more planning with Dee (and John?) Wed May 8 2-4pm ET
  Jane Harris:With Sloan - you get access to materials for a year afterwards.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Sometimes people do need to document professional development hours so a certificate may be valuable in that case
  Pamela Auburn:what about an ongoing online lerning community
  John Sener:@Beth -- true, but is that something that TLTG can provide?
  Randal:no worries!
  Pamela Auburn:Have you looked at the Badge programs at NSTA and I think OERCommon is also thinking about this
  Pamela Auburn:Have you looked at the forums in the NSTA Learning center?
  John Sener:@Pamela: it's a good idea; building sustainable OLCs is tricky tho
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Ending/beginning times and structured/unstructured "spaces" for MOOCow can/should be shaped by what we want to cause or permit to happen 'AFTER" the ending date
  John Sener:@Pam: not familiar w/one NSTA is doing in this area
  Randal:I like @Dee's idea but that does add a lot of effort after te course. Who will do that in te long term?
  suehellman:@ Dee interesting idea -- but if the discussions become unavaliable, then unless someone is acting as an archivist, all the resources and ideas shared become unavailable when the official course closes.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:post course activity will likely develop organically and connecting people to John's web site
  suehellman:In the minin--MOOCs I've been associated with, the shell remains open and up to anyone who is registered with the providing organization. People don't worry about that., but anyone can get in and take a look at if afterwards
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:helping to facilitate connection for continued application of John's strategies seems like it fits John's goal
  Randal:I took te Coursera World Music course. I tried to capture the lessons, etc. while bot lurking and engaging. One disappointment was not being able to go back -- after the course -- and lookn  at the material again.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:some MOOCs do allow post course access
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:to materials
  Ilene Frank 2:Randal, I wonder why Coursera decided to do that with the courses.  I'm puzzled by their decision.
  Randal:By the way, in terms of "fish or cut bait" a la @Steve, I would suggest going for the fixed beginning date option and see what happens.
  suehellman:special day. congrats John
  Joy Mark:I need to go - thanks for the great session
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:yes
  Randal:proud parent of two kids in college ..
  Pamela Auburn:I like this idea. I may not be available on the 8th. I am giving an exam
  John Sener:thx @SueH
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Asynch fishbowl planning!  May 8 w Dee, May 10 w JohnS
  Pamela Auburn:I need to run Ya'll have my contact info
  Randal:hi @Ilene ... perhaps they will rethink that.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:May 8 - end of 1 year of college student parenthood!  May 7 end of 1st year of Grandparenthood for Steve & Sally!
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:John, what are your thoughts on the end of the MOOC?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:It might be good to clarify this today.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:end of June????
  Randal:I guess I missed out on one question ... what is te MOOC about?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Randal  see notes pod now visible?
  Randal:i aven't been to TGFs in a wile
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Randall - "Seven Futures of Amercian Eeducation
  Jane Harris:thnx all. until next time.
  Randal:thanks @Beth
  suehellman:Johin -- it depends on how much ownership you feel and how open you are to a different perspective it if arses??
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Goal - learning goals using DF taxonomy
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Yes, map your goals to the taxonomy
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:STRUCTURE OF MOOCowStarting Date? May 17, 2013!!!????  [public planning date (fishbowl) May 8] - need to define/explain what "starting date" means!!!!  COUNT MAY 17 AS 1ST OF 4 SYNCH SESSIONS??Ending Date?  Follow-up Date(s)?Description/Registration             When describing, promoting this MOOCow, we will try to be explicit in EXCLUDING some elements from 7Fs book7Fs Book4 Synch Events ...  over what period?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:and possbily extend them
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:OBJECTIVES for MOOCowA.  For others (participants)This course is designed to help you achieve one or more of the following objectives:    Identify pressing challenges, develop a rationale, identify criteria, and select actionable strategies for improving educational quality.    Understand the major forces (foundational shifts, influential futures) that are shaping the future of education in the U.S. (and to some extent, throughout the world).    User-defined -- identify your own objectives, use one of the course structures and/or adult learning principles to reach your objective(s).B.  For leaders - this course is designed to help me achieve one or more of the following objectives:    Disseminate the ideas of Seven Futures to a wider audience.    Encourage greater use of effective strategies for improving educational quality by using cyber technologies.    Elevate the discussion about how to improve educational quality by enabling us to ask more incisive questions.    Learn more about what resonates with read
  suehellman:Don't build it all -just put in the learning outcomes -- just the first column of the 3 column chart?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:I can e-mail them to you
  suehellman:Are they in todays' slides, Steve?
  suehellman:@John -- should be in today's slides
  suehellman:pie chart & 3column chart.
  Randal:So, @Steve, you see group A. as course instrucors, and per"Seven Futures of Amercian Eeducationaps group B. as admin, FacDev types? Or possibly tere is a merge, i.e. some one teacing seminar to EdTec or Ed LEadersip grad students.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:John if you can develop the learning goals using Dees framework, it would be fun to draft the learning activities based on the things you have already developed and other ideas
  Randal:It *is* 5pm some were!
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:I think we should stay with Wed
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:The Tuesday checkin sounds good.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:what time will work for you John>
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:4pm ET  Tues?
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:5-6pm ET Tues May 7
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Tuesday 5:00 PM ET
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:this room?
  suehellman:I'm in a course that night.
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:5pm  ET Tuesday Fishbowl
  Randal:I'll try to attend and join te swim
  John Sener:@Randal: bring your fins!
  John Sener:;-)
  Mike Wallace:Thank you for your work and vision on this...
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:It is interesting to apply the model to this thing called a MOOC
  suehellman:Link to the planning document?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:this is cool and I think will be helpful for others
  Mike Wallace:I will be working with a few faculty who are rolling out MOOCs in the next 6 months
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:intersting Mike Wallace
  suehellman:Sorry -- I have it.
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:I hope you will share Mike, what you are learning
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:Mike is this helpful with your work?
  Mike Wallace:its a great opportunity and a challenge creating opportunities for learning
  suehellman:Bye all
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:bye all
  Randal:we'll get an email on tat I take it?
  John Sener:thx everyone! who participated and stayed to the end!
  Randal:Best to all, Tanks!
  Randal:Best to all, Tanks!'
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:we'll send email to everyone who registered for this about next Tues opportujnitjy!
  Mike Wallace:bye
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:HAPPY WEEKEND!
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:I will be happy to send it out Steve
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:We're looking for good fried chicken in Silver Spring/DC area for dinner tonight!
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:do you want to draft it, me?
  Beth Dailey, TLT Group:enjoy
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:If you mean about the Tues and wed sessions (now both) where we have BOTH John & Dee for Tues but only Dee for Wed , pls go ahead - maybe use whate er language we already have for the May 8 session... also did you see that for this EXPEIRMENT we're keeping these 2 fishbowl planning sessions open to all and we will use room
  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:THIS WAS TERRIFIC!!

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