Thursday, March 01, 2012

Metacognition Session #3 Chat Transcript #TLTGOLI 20120228

 David McCurry, TLT Group:Welcome to the final session in this workshop.
 John Zubizarreta:Friends: just by way of welcoming you all, let me
say "hello" while we wait for the official start. Thanks for sharing
your time and thoughts.

 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:I can still say Good Morning! and am looking
forward to your presentation!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Rumors of Saundra's absence were exaggerated
- or am I mis-remembering?
 Deborah Clemens, Excelsior College:yes
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Empire State College is here! (Betty, Bernard and Susan)
 Linda Nilson:yes
 Nancy Calsolaro Smulsky - Excelsior College:loud & clear
 Andrea Fernandez:North Carolina A&T State University checking in.
 David McCurry, TLT Group:Great, yes
 David McCurry, TLT Group:(Recording now...)
 David McCurry, TLT Group:yes
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Sound very good!
 Andrea Fernandez:Yes
 Linda Nilson:yes
 Saundra McGuire:Loudly and  clearly
 Saundra McGuire:the high stakes tests are counterproductive to
developing the habit of reflection
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Homebase Web page for this workshop,
including links, info, resources:
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Homebase Web page will include text
transcripts of chat and digital recording
 sara weertz:Steve--will the URL contain links for all 3 workshops?
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Yes
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:"Reflection for Learning" - includes brief
bibliography, etc.including Jennifer Moon publication:
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:AAC&U LEAP Project
 Saundra McGuire:Connection is so important, and increases student
motivation for learning
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:just a handful - sadly
 John Zubizarreta:Yes, Saundra is absolutely right: connections,
connections: I emphasize it all the time.
 Paula C:definitely not enough - a number still want instructions to
move forward
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:motivation is relevance. Make it relevant
- they want to learn it.
 Alexandra Herb:provide modeling and practice for students to develop
these habits of mind
 John Zubizarreta:Yes, Paula, reflection fosters self-direction.
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Saundra's point about high stakes testing has
analogy in higher ed where students are often working, taking full
time course load, full social life, family/other commitments - time is
crucial for reflection
 Saundra McGuire:Almost none of them have it initially.  I think
putting less emphasis on grades, and more emphasis on learning would
help.  Or as Carol Dweck emphasize, put more emphasis on effort.
 Kyle Songer - Excelsior College:I think you have to develop
activities with that in mind for asynchronous courses.
 Linda Nilson:Most of my graduate students are like this, but they are
also insecure and scared.  Undergrads?  Only a few honors types fit
this description.
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Time and willingness to listen without undue
critique - or constructive critique
 Andrea Fernandez:I struggle with getting my students to be
reflective. I do beliee that motivation is key. I am not sure how to
"teach" motivation.
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:We work more with adult learners, who learn
best when reflection is connected with context.
 Paula C:@Linda - that's what I find with my undergrads as well - both
in class and online
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Motivation and time -  two important factors
very difficult to "provide" !
 Saundra McGuire:So many faculty resist this, especially STEM faculty,
and say that they don't have time to do this with their classes.
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Some students, strategic learners, may also
resist, perceiving this as 'busy work' - put less effort into the
online posts, etc.
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:The amount of follow up, reinforcement,
creation of connections for these learners can be quite an effort
 Saundra McGuire:Yes, Anne.  I've seen many students vehemently resist this!
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Please share next slide!
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:resistance is the  problem!
 sara weertz:20 years of "bad" habits are hard to break
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Share slides please!
 Paula C:@Saundra - it took me a while to learn to put some of the
content acquizition in the hands of the students, e.g. reading,
research - and use class time to discuss, solve problems, ask
questions - etc.  I'm still learning how to get better at that
 David McCurry, TLT Group:Yes, they will be.
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Slide onscreen is UK Characteristics of
reflective learners!
 Anne Zald & Co @ UNLV:Slides have not advanced
 Saundra McGuire:Great  point, Paula.  I find that when we spend less
time covering content, and more time covering the learning process,
students can acquire and master the content themselves.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:works of Robert G. Bringle and Julie A.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:[I see slide "Reflection ... complexity in
learning"  Levels of Bloom's ...
 Paula C:I do remember that from last week!  lol  :-D
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Is that why Barb moved to Texas?
 Paula C:@Sayundra - which becomes very helpful in not trying to plow
through too much information - at the expense of understanding
 sara weertz:Helen Barrett: the grandmother of ePortfolios!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:And Santorum suggests some have been
over-advocating higher education anyway!
 Paula C:then we move to teaching to the test, pass it, move on to the next test
 Saundra McGuire:It's VERY common among faculty!
 suehellman:I attended an AAAD workshop on learning and they said that
content students learn in 1st year sciences may be out of date by the
time they reach 3rd year
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:reflection poorly implemented, without the full
cycle of application, context, analysis, revision, could fall off into
these extremes
 sara weertz:obviously he's never really tried this in the classroom
 suehellman:Sorry AAAS
 Paula C:@suehellman - I believe it!!!!
 Linda Nilson:Higher ed is very trendy with teaching methods, so I
can't blame someone for figuring reflection is just another one.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:August 30, 2006 "ON EDUCATION:  Upon Further
Reflection, a Few Random Thoughts" By SAMUEL G. FREEDMAN, New York
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:I think the problem is is the age
difference between us - the older generation - wanting to reflect, and
the young folks who have no dept of perception YET, view  this
practice as a waist of time. Plus - it is really time comsuming, and
we always lack time.
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:If students perceive this as busy work, it could
also be reported as waste of time
 sara weertz:not just deep reflection, but metacogition
 Saundra McGuire:How do we teach faculty what relection IS, and how to
do it with their students?
 sara weertz:good question, Saundra
 Paula C:@Anne - that's very true - as you said, if it's not implemented well...
 Linda Nilson:Refection includes "critique, evalaution, analysis..."
-- evidence that Freedman doesn't understand what reflection is.
 Juanita Painter:i agree sara
 Paula C:@Saundra - that's a good question
 Saundra McGuire:@ Sara.  One Entomology professor once told me that
her senior level students hated reflection, but loved metacognitive
analysis.  Go figure.
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:AAEEBL is a great resource on use of e-portfolios
 Paula C:@Saundra - it's much more impressive as a big word   :-)
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:@Saundra - LOVE this idea - what to call it tailored
to preferences of student learning styles!
 suehellman:The same question came up in the workshop I attended.
Their response was that the studies on how effective this is with
students have been done and the data is persuasive -- what's needed
now is to act on it.
 Linda Nilson:In addition, Freedman doesn't understand the learning
power of emotions.
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:Most american student view reflective
practices as NON productive sicne there is NO REAL outcome  (you cant
touch it, feel it, and raises  tons of addtional questions) Americans
do not like  an open end questions or the journey without the final
 sara weertz:It takes time to review reflections and ePortfolios,
which is another reason why faculty resist
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I'll ask my 26-year-old daughter what she
has found recently when working with mid-teens in summer camping
program where they spend 3 weeks without any digital connections at
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Voluntarily!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:[John - that's part of why i'm so pleased
that we got the 3 of you to do this workshop together - you cover
almost every "sector" that people might claim cannot gain from
'reflective practice' !!!]
 suehellman:Perhaps it's because the information in science and
medicine is seen to change faster than literature and history?
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:learning to learn is so critical in sci/tech/medicine!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:How about role of reflective practice in
Stanford's recent 70000 student "course" in Computer Science?
 suehellman:Al;so they are not evaluated in terms of past standards as
is education where looking back is seen as the best way to evaluate
success in the present.
 Alexandra Herb:Think, pair, share
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:annotated bibliography - where annotation must
address not only primary findings but also, what it contributes to
'my' argument or research - in student's own words can see if they
comprehend, apply, select sources for more than topic relevance,
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:Peer grading:  take a quiz, break into
groups, identify the  questions with different answers,  discuss the
point of view, retake the quiz, compare results 1 and 2.
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Michele from Empire State: have first-year
students create their own course; identify resources and explain why
they'd be useful; worked great- products were amazing- worked because
students had ownership
 Linda Nilson:Unique?  I "borrowed" this one from Wirth & Perkins and
Zander & Zander.  I have students write an essay the first week of
class entitled ""How I Earned an A in this Course."
 Saundra McGuire:I ask students to analyze their tests and to
determine the characteristics of the itmes they missed (e.g. level of
Bloom's Taxonomy).  Then they are to analyze their study behavior and
predict what changes would have improved their performance.  Then they
are to implement the changes.  I know that it works because students'
scores improve.
 John Zubizarreta:Can't help noting Betty's comment about students'
ownership. Remember J. Moon's observation about how reflection
empowers students?
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Susan from Empire State: on second essay;
reflect  on how their approach differed from how they worked on first
essay- was approach different and why? was it better?- was successful-
improvement in writing
 sara weertz:Lesson Study--which has DEMONSTRATED teaching, observing,
analyzing--all in the same lesson
 John Zubizarreta:Irina's suggestion reminds us of the power of
collaborative work with students. The power comes not so much from the
group activity but from sharing the authority of learning with
students. That is true collaborative learning! See Bruffee's work.
 Sharon Aronovitch:case studies - demonstreates critical thinking
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I recall Lucy's practice of asking students
to write instruction as study guide to next term's students in same
course - gets students to think at next higher level about their own
practrice and progress - and might help successor students' too - Lucy
reports good results as noted by BOTH students and faculty who use
 Linda Nilson:I know my strategy works because students reflect on
what is involved in effective learning.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Also, Saundra's Preview-Class-Review (PCR)
Study Cycle  see
 Andrea Fernandez:I had my students complete a vision board based on
their current and future goals. They have to identify things that they
are doing now that are in alignment with achieveing those goals. It
gives them the opportunity to take stock on where they are currently
and  reflect on what what is working or what they need to change.
 Andrea Fernandez:"Take stock of" Sorry
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Also:  John Zubizarreta:   "Using Critical
Reflection to Deepen Student Learning," TLTG FrLv! June 30, 2011
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JohnZ demonstrated HOW to manage student
asynch online interaction to deepen reflection
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JohnZ:  Reflection as an activity, at its
best, that is BOTH looking backward and looking inward/outward in the
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JohnZ -  Modeling reflective practice to
encourage students [and colleagues!] to engage more often and more
effectively in reflective practice
 Paula C:I'm crushed....  :-)
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JohnZ asks reflective questions sometimes
(like now) about reflection on a VERY short time in past - last 4
 sara weertz:use of prior knowledge + collaborative effort with students
 Linda Nilson:Reflection takes some time.  It depends on memory and evaluation.
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Michele from Empire State: the fluidity of
reflection- like a wave going back and forth
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I learned about multi-facets of reflection
as looking backward, inward, outward - both historically and presently
 Saundra McGuire:I found myself reflecting on some of the strategies
mentioned, and came up with ways I could implement these strategies,
with modifications.  So reflection allows you to come up with new
 Paula C:Isn't this a bit what the idea of the "flipped classroom"
looks to accomplish?
 sara weertz:Reflective practice allows you to synthesize, all the "what ifs..."
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I was also reminded several times today by
JohnZ that even a little silence can be significant - and something we
much less frequently have given to us!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: It's OK to include "Dead Air" time even in
online session! Although I've learned to include some visible sign to
assure participants that they have not simply lost audio!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I REALLY like JohnZ's "Reflect on the last 4
minutes" variation on Think Pair Share! - I suspect it's a  bit of a
shock the first time the  students/audience/participants are asked to
reflect on the most recent 4 minutes - instead of something that
happened in the more distant past and for a longer time!
 suehellman:Information may have a short life, but learning should be lasting.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Homebase Web page for this workshop,
including links, info, resources:
 Saundra McGuire:I'm going to spend more time trying to get STEM
faculty to appreciate the value of reflection.
 Linda Nilson:I wonder whether students resist reflection because
they're afraid of "being alone" (unconnected), which is part of what
reflection is.
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Michele (Empire State): thinking about putting
short reflective exercies within an online module
 Irina Ivliyeva, Missouri ST:I ahve to leaave now, thank you so much!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:My biggest concern right now:  How can we
get these great sessions to more of our colleagues than could join us
for these exceptionally valuable 3 online sessions?
 Saundra McGuire:Ahhh.  Getting them to develop a portfolio is a great idea.
REFLECTIVE ACTIVITEIS THEMSELVES - under conditions where they are
likely to enjoy and benefit from the activity!
 Paula C:I will work on including at least one reflective discussion
each week in my courses - both hybrid and online.  I think this has
the possibility of being a benefit in a course that is largely theory
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Have others tried submitting a "minute
reflection" online?
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:What about getting administrators to
exemplify reflective practice?  Is that even conceivable?  Desirable?
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:And if we can succeed with higher ed
administrators, can we try politicians?
 Paula C:@Betty - no, how does it work>
 Deborah Clemens, Excelsior College:is reflection a solitary
activity?cf linda's comment
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:I think you call it something that sounds less
touchy feely for STEM people - gear the message to the audience.
 Linda Nilson:There is plenty of evidence that metacognition and
self-regulation enhances learning.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:@AnneZ - good point about labeling...  some
have found that "undergrad research" is more appealing to some kinds
of faculty than "information literacy"!
 Paula C:thanks so much for all this - great session - and great
series - bye all
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:@Paula- have not tried it- We use journalling a
lot, but have not tried the "minute" idea.
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:Undergrad research, Critical Thinking rather than IL
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Thanks Paula - hope to"see" you again soon!
 Paula C:@Betty - same here
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:Metacognition - do you lose any meaning by using the
scientific term?
 Paula C:@Steve - thanks - I will definitely attend more sessions!!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:This Thursday -  TLT Roundtables revisited -
Why now?   This Friday "Lectures are still good... aren't they?"
 Anne Zald @ UNLV:Thank you for a great session - great resources and ideas
 Sharon Aronovitch:Thank you for sharing great information.
 Terry Conry 2:Thank you very much.
 Saundra McGuire:Good question, Anne.  I think I'll start with
metacognition, and then have them move to thinking of it as reflection
(IF and when they're ready!)  :-)
 sara weertz:clapping
 Betty Hurley-Dasgupta:Thanks!
 Saundra McGuire:Thanks, John.  I learned a LOT!
 Deborah Clemens, Excelsior College:Thank you John
 Linda Nilson:Enthusiastic applause!
 Andrea Fernandez:Thank you!
 Joy Mark:Is anybody combining this kind of teaching/learning with
(learner) analytics as evidence of effectiveness?
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:This has been GREAT!!!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Saundra:  found some students were pre-set
to resist "reflection" as too touchy-feely but who might be more
receptive to term "meta-cognition"
 Juanita Painter:Great online workshop!  I have gained a few ideas I
will put to work.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Tnx Saundra -  I hope you and John & Lucy
will be open to join us again - you each/all did a terrirfic job of
explaining and demonstrating valuable, effrective, intersting ideas
and strategeis and principles!
 Saundra McGuire:You're right, John.  Some folks resist the term metacognition.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I suspect that ytour emphasis on modeling
good reflective practice and meta-cognition can be more powerful and
overcome the resistance to whatever labels might be used
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Homebase Web page for this workshop,
including links, info, resources:
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JohnZ - RLM - Reflective Learning Moment -
"the pause that REALLY refreshes... intellectually and educationally"!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:jZ - putting the emphasis for/with students
on the "process of learning itself"
 Linda Nilson:Yes, Steve, I have a question.  I wonder whether
students resist reflection because they're afraid of "being alone"
(unconnected), which is part of what reflection is.
 Saundra McGuire:Gotta run to a meeting soon.  Thanks again!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:
 Linda Nilson:Thank you, John.
 suehellman:Thanks so much.
 David McCurry, TLT Group:Thanks everyone.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JohnZ:  Lilly So.  theme - neuroscience -
brain as topic for online sessions!
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JZ:  "brain-based learning"
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Affirms value of reflection!
 Linda Nilson:This was wonderful.  Just a comment:  So many of the
qualities of the reflective person are traits of character.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:This is my sneaky way of suggesting we might
ask you to return and ask such "experts" your own questions!
 suehellman:Mary Helen Immordino-Yang
 suehellman:she's done interesting work on the role of emotions in learning
 Linda Nilson:Jeanette Norden, Vanderbilt U. Medical School, on
brain-based learning
 suehellman:I have a few other names, but I"ll have to look them up
and send them along.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Welcome any/all suggestion!
 Linda Nilson:Jeanette has even done tapes for The Teaching Company.
 Linda Nilson:I agree that Rose was fabulous.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:JZ:  Todd Rose
 Linda Nilson:That's the one!
 John Zubizarreta:Rose was good; so was Terry Doyle at Lilly-Oxford.
Different style but good.
 Linda Nilson:Thank you all so much.
 David McCurry, TLT Group:Bye.
 Mary Westmoreland:Thanks and I enjoyed the great information
 John Zubizarreta:Thanks to all you for being an engaged group of
participants. Cheers.
 David McCurry, TLT Group:(Recording stopped)
 David McCurry, TLT Group:OK
 David McCurry, TLT Group:No
 David McCurry, TLT Group:can't display a URL
 David McCurry, TLT Group:directly
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:hearing you fine
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:i was uploading and couldn't get back to this screen
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:don't seem to have mic option
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:right
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:darkened
 David McCurry, TLT Group:right.
 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:how did you do this?
 David McCurry, TLT Group:Right
 David McCurry, TLT Group:OK, mine is off
 David McCurry, TLT Group:OK..
 David McCurry, TLT Group:that's how it works, more or less
 David McCurry, TLT Group:Right

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